Recently I started reading Andy Crouch's Culture Makers and his initial concern is that we were created to "make something of the world." So I've decided to jump headlong into a study about consumerism vs. making something of the world.
Genesis 2:15 states that God placed people on the earth and told them to "work it and take care of it," or in Andy Crouch's words, to "make something of the world." Then Genesis 3 God reveals that part of the fruit of the fall is that the earth will resist peoples' efforts to make something of the world.
- So, metaphorically speaking, could we say that a "thorns and thistles" are those things that compromise our call to make something of the world? In other words, if I exist to watch the Broncos get their butts kicked week after week after week, does that (at least for me) make the Broncos/the NFL a thorn?
25 comments:
I can definetly find consumerism as a thorn or thistle. I find myself searching for a good deal on stuff I don't even need just so I can look forward to something coming in the mail. Like steep and cheap. Good deals on a lot of stuff I don't need. It is a waste of resources.
It's interesting to me that you do that, because you also create A LOT. Crouch talks about being "artists and gardeners," seems like you do a lot of both. So why the additional consuming?
If we assume that God’s purpose for our existence is for us “to make something of the world,” does it not follow that we also need to be consumers?
If each of us is a producer—of art, furniture, crops, machinery, ideas, theories, whatever—but we consume minimally, then we will have no outlet for our abilities.
To argue this from a theological perspective, suppose God is glorified through each of us doing what we do best…which I would argue is through us producing something, although it may not be material goods. Since Mikey’s already posted, I’m going to use him as an example. OK, so Mikey makes long boards. Maybe by itself that is pleasing to God. But I would argue that if he merely made boards, hundreds of boards, and there was no corresponding consumption of those boards, then Mikey’s artistic gift becomes wasteful, maybe even worse, something like reverse consumerism. But it is Mikey’s production, his craft, combined with other’s interest in & need for his product—their consumerism—that allows Mikey’s gift to bring glory to God.
What if Pope Paul III didn’t consume what Michelangelo produced?
What if the scientific community didn’t consume what Einstein produced?
What if people hadn’t consumed new technology—cars, telephones & electric lighting—produced by Henry Ford, Alexander Graham Bell & Thomas Edison?
I would argue that inherent in the directive to “make something of the world,” there is a piece where we need to complement our production/artistic/creative weaknesses with someone else’s strengths—through consumerism.
And it is together—production & consumerism—that people’s talents, artistic bent, persuasions & strengths can “make something of the world.”
Hi Steph!
Your comments make a ton of sense to me, thanks for stirring all that up. I think especially your concluding comment, "And it is together—production & consumerism—that people’s talents, artistic bent, persuasions & strengths can “'make something of the world.'”
So, would you agree with the general diagnosis, ie, that ours is a culture addicted to consumption and even a culture that holds consumption as its purpose? Your post caused me to think that perhaps what is at issue is simple gluttony.
I agree with Steph and then Adam's reply. I think consumption is part of what makes us human, but that it has been skewed beyond consumption in our society. Adam used the word gluttony. I think that nails it on the head. We aren't consuming to survive or bless others. We are consuming to benefit ourselves.
I recently listened to a Mars Hill podcast where Rob Bell used the terms egocentric and ethnocentric (flash back to PSYC 101) to define the church’s world view. I think those terns can be applied to consumption/consumerism as well. An egocentric view means that you view everything as if it was there for you (selfish, self-centered, me, me, me). Ethnocentric means that you recognize the rest of the world as outside of you and that there’s more. An ethnocentric view means you are considering others.
The bible says that jealousy, envy and coveting are all sins. It raises a question in my head: at what point does my desire to buy/own something turn into coveting? At what point do I go from casual want to sinful desire? Is it when my desire ignores my responsibility to have an ethnocentric world view and instead turns into an egocentric, self-centered, I-don’t-care-who-this-hurts desire?
Why is it sin after some point. What does it do to my soul when I reach that point?
I struggle with desire and envy just as much as the next guy, and it’s so easy to fulfill the consumerism desires that I have. If I want a nice big flat screen TV, I can just go down and buy one. But what does it do to my life? It will take away time from my family, it will take time away from God, it will disable me from pulling my fat butt of the couch to go serve someone and it will make me loathful (another sin). But what if I bought my TV to serve others, to invite people over for dinner and a movie, to watch games and build relationships. That’s more ethnocentric, but it’s still limiting me from doing what God really called me to do. Is it still sin?
How would you define sin?
That's my question. At what point does it become sin? That's how you define it. (at least that's how my brain would have to define it) There has to be a line drawn. No gray.
Consuming (maybe envy and coveting are part of that) could be considered a sin it.... I just don't know. Luckily, I don't have to have all of the answers, but it is fun to ask the questions.
Hi Joe. But literally, what is your working definition of sin (forget about consumerism for a second)?
Still waiting to hear from Steph and Joe, but I've most recently been processing this from a who cares/what changes level.
What would you (anybody) say is the downside of an over emphasis on consumerism? For the Christ-follower and/or for the outsider?
I think the fact that 2/3 of our economy is consumer driven is evidence enough that our culture see consumption as the end product. In fact, the government likes to propagate this sort of thinking...remember the $600 rebate we all got "to stimulate the economy"? It's ridiculous.
I was thinking about consumerism this morning...
It's wrapped up in the way people socialize, especially young people--when was the last time you were at the mall on a Friday night? It's full of teenager. They're socializing, but it's done in a consumer-centered environment.
For many people, consumerism is a stress outlet--retail therapy, anyone? Why? Because when we don't feel good about ourselves or something else in our life, we can at least feel good about a new possession. This is temporary, of course.
There's also sort of an idolization of consumerism. I can appreciate this because I'm a chick, but you can buy greeting cards that say "If the shoe fits, buy it...in every color!" Funny...but also a little subversive, because this kind of thinking inundates our culture.
And then there's the culture factor. We don't like to think about "keeping up with the Joneses", but there's a point at which others will have a hard time identifying with those who are rigidly anti-consumeristic. How many Amish friends do you have?
I would argue that much of the problem stems from boredom...if more people would get back to creating, working with their hands, being productive in a way that is personally satisfying to them, then they wouldn't have to rely on consumerism to occupy their time.
And as for being against consumerism, a more productive way to combat it may be to offer productive alternatives, rather than railing against the thing itself.
I don't know how I would define it. I think that by defining something that you are setting an absolute, and don't think that I can set/make an absolute for sin.
I can explain what I perceive sin to be though, and I can do that by evaluating what the Word of God has told me (defined?) sin to be.
IN MY OPINION:
Sin is an action, a thought, a gesture or anything that I can do physically, mentally or spiritually that somehow hinders my ability to love, represent God and His kingdom or follow Jesus.
-10 commandments: Some of them are things I shouldn't do because the outcome affects me or another person in a negative way either spiritually, physically or mentally. The rest are commands that if broken have the same affect.
There's way to much going through my mind to type (let alone read), but that's the tip of the ice burg for me.
I'm not saying I'm absolutely right, and it probably wouldn't be hard to push my thoughts around.
Don't hold me to this. It's just an idea in progress just like the rest of the views I and everyone has. We're all learning and growing. (I feel like I'm on the chopping block now)
So when Izzy comes to you (at 15) and says, "Daddy, what is sin?" what would you say?
Response to Joe's last comment:
You say that "sin" is something that hinders your ability to represent God.
So...are you saying that there is only one way to represent God & "sin" causes one to deviate from this one way?
And what was your point regarding the 10 commandments? I didn't quite catch what you were trying to say...
Dude, Joe, you've got us all hanging, take a shot at the sin question. The issue at hand, that you raised, is "At what point does consumerism become sin?"
So, take a swing...
Steph!
Totally with you on simply speaking out against consumerism is dumb, I hope that isn't what you sense me saying we ought to do.
I'm first personally challenged (even this blog is evidence of how much more productive I can be if I stop consuming and start creating, as the time I used to spend surfing I now spend here).
So, if we agree something has gone wrong, that consumerism is destructive, but we also agree protesting is dumb, "what now shall we do?" Joe? Mikey? Anyone else?
Ok, I'm involved. Many thoughts and very little time. The most important thing that stood out to me was the question of the conversion of normal consumerism to sin. I see Jesus and the Bible discussing personal responsibility and self control quite a bit. The tangible side of this for me relates to how I handle cash. We know the Bible speaks negatively regarding debt. It would be interesting to know what consumerism would be like in our culture if debt was not allowed (maybe not legislated against, but socially unacceptable..i.e. it was a social abnormality to be in debt, thus creating a social standard)..would it be as rampant, probably not. I could go on and on, but I think the first step for consuming to change to sin is if debt is incurred. Thoughts??
I'm frustrated. I don't know what you want from me about sin. I explained what I think sin is, and I don't even know how right that his. Challenge me on it, but don't grill me with questions. If you think I'm wrong say so and explain why.
Also, I work from 8am-5pm. Other than lunch, I won't be reading or responding, so be patient.
What do I think sin is: Something that keeps me from God.
Why do I think that consumerism (I'll be more specific: Excessive Consumerism) could be a sin?
If I spend all of my time researching things that I want to buy on the internet, buying those things and then using those things I am probably not spending a lot of time being a Christ follower. I argue that it hinders my walk with God because I'm substituting time I could spend in the Word with internet surfing. Instead of blessing others by giving/using what God has blessed me with, I'm wasting it on my selfish self. Instead of getting out and serving people and building relationships or, dare I say it, engaging people about God, I'm hold up in my house playing my Xbox on my 62" LCD TV that no one has ever seen because I don't have any friends.
Consumerism is deteriorating my soul at that point. It's taking me farther and farther away from the Father.
The 11th commandment isn't "Thou shall not consume." But, what if it was. What if we were warned that through excesive consuption (of anything: media, products, etc.) that we will miss the point? We will miss what God has called us to do.
On top of that; what about the child-labor-sweat-shop machine of oppression that we are perpetuating by consuming ridiculous stuff like TV's, iPhones, FiveFinger shoes and our ever so necessary Abercrombi & Fitch wardrobes?
I'm not defining consumerism as a sin. I'm not saying it's black and white. I'm simply asking what do we define sin as and does excessive consumerism fit in that category?
Mark. Very interesting, and very thought provoking...I've got to spend some time with it.
How much of consumerism is enabled by the fact that I can have things I can't afford? This seems to be the cutting edge of what you're saying, and it makes a ton of sense.
Plus, if my consumption was limited to what I could afford, I'd have no choice but to be a gardener and artist more!
Very cool.
Joe, sorry you're frustrated, that wasn't my intent.
You offered a very non-committed definition of sin (you yourself said it was loose). The point of my questions was that I suspect "when the rubber meets the road" your definition of sin is much more reasoned and concrete than you give yourself credit for.
Since you asked, I think I'm most comfortable defining sin as anything that hinders relationships; anything that hinders my relationship with God, others, creation, or myself.
Thus, I'm most comfortable saying consumerism leads me astray when it causes me to harm relationships.
When you cool off I'd love to know how that sits (I hope you catch my good humored ribbing).
This is going South for me fast. Even Steph's comment from the other comment thread disturbs me and my perception of how people are perceiving me.
Note: I hold no responsibility for any perceptions made by anyone reading my comments. My comments are always intended with the best in mind. :)
I'm not mad or anything like that. I was frustrated because after I was done explaining what I thought sin could be defined as, you asked me how I would define sin.
So, when you say "how does that sit?" I'm not sure what you are referring to as "that".
It sounds like you are aligning your definition of sin with what I thought it was. That's affirming.
Sorry about the long posts. It takes me a while to process and quantify my thought, but when I do I just want to puke it all out. Even my long posts are my best attempt at keeping them short. It probably doesn't help that the column is only 8 words wide.
I've tried to fix the width of the columns...but I'm too dumb.
Adam-Yeah, I think you could even take the thought a step further and ask..how much is consumerism driven by lack of value of the things you are consuming? The example that comes to mind is when you were a little kid and you were eating your favorite candy bar...you didn't devour half of it and throw the other half away, rather, you ate it slowly and enjoyed every bite...because you valued it. When you don't have to pay cash for an item..how much do you value it, and therefore, how much more likely are you to consume it? I know this doesn't seem like an earth shattering revelation, but I do think that the concept of value is a vital piece to the process of consuming.
No, I think the debt thing might be earth shattering, really! How many places would go out of business tomorrow if the option to buy what you can't afford went out the window? Certainly not the end all, but an enormous contribution to the conversation, especially if part of the question is "how do we ween ourselves off consumerism?" It'd be a huge start.
Valuing things also makes a lot of sense (cents).
Adam-Yeah, it will be interesting to see what social moves come out of the current credit crisis...there are already a few businesses that operate debt free. I wonder if more will move toward this. To me the idea of Proverbs 22:7 has no place in our society today, maybe what the markets are doing right now is a natural correction for this deviation our culture has taken. People are not afraid of being "slaves to the lender". It totally goes against God's desire for freedom in our lives.
So, in your mind are there "acceptable" forms of debt? What are they?
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